Stanley Milgram took electric shock very seriously. Like, saying like, "I don't want to kill a guy.". Thanks to all our great storytellers. So, I heard this one from this guy named David-. I just needed to kill her." Yep, women participants, he had an experimenter who wasn't a scientist, but was a member of the general public. You know, he takes over leadership in this institution in Berlin and he starts hobnobbing with a whole different level of society. Well, there's something distasteful about the fact that he was too into it, but I do think on some level you have to divorce the man from his deeds. But you know, we ended up walking this question around to different people. For much the same reasons. These are people who are incredibly noble, they are. And what happens is that you're- you're elbowing the nit- nitrogen apart from itself and then, forcing it to bond with a hydrogen in a new way. Well, I can use that same process to make explosives because the thing that you put into the ground to grow more food is also the thing you can explode to make a bomb.". Only then does God speak up and kind of say, like, "You're gonna question me?" Then he goes and, you know, and celebrates that. But every time the experimenter pulled out the fourth prod, and this was confirmed when the experiment was redone in 2006, total disobedience. He gets promoted to the rank of Captain. But it wasn't until a few years later that he learned something that really put what happened that night into context. With all of the black-and-white moralizing in our world today, we decided to bring back an old show about the little bit of bad that's in all of us.and the little bit of really, really bad that's in some of us. The story of Job is that one day God and Satan are having a conversation, and they're saying, "Have you checked out Job? Radiolab is supported by Casper. Natural deposits would be like seaweed or-, You know, you could find it in cow manure or-. His health is failing in 1934, he takes a trip to Switzerland to a sanatorium-. Accuracy and availability may vary. He could have never imagined that. "Definitely yes.". Anytime the experimenter said, "You must continue." Our- our friend. Yellow mucus was frothing out of their mouth, those who could still breathe would turn blue. Under extreme, extreme pressure at high temperature, and then he forces hydrogen into the tank. And that's what Shakespeare did in all his plays. It was developed in his institute. But when he gets there, he has to contend with his wife. They reach back to the shelf and they find this zyklon stuff. And they ask for it to be reformulated to take out the warning smell. Does he- is he saying what I think he's saying? Who they would kill, where they'd do it, when. You know, he's a man adrift. Let not your sorrows die though I am dead. The same year that Adolf Eichmann goes on trial for Nazi war crimes. Then a few months later, he started calling me, trying to get back together, but I didn't want to. 1933 comes. Fat- commit them to memory? Scattered One dead dad. And the number of chemical reactions. And "Well, why the rage?" But he does it with a kind of amoral athleticism, he does it without humility, without a lot of doubt. So, every day they would bring him into this conference room. Yeah. Then suddenly the thought occurred to me that my life would be much happier without him in existence.". Go to audible.com/radiolab or text Radiolab to 500500 for a free 30-day trial and a few audiobook. Whether it was feeding, or killing, or-, And he does. Like, how do you tell the real baddies from the rest of us? To the best of your memory, which word was matched with nice? Unusually so in those times. If this is the singular moment in Shakespeare where he gives you an un-understandably evil man, no motives, no reason; any idea what the hell he was intending? He figures out a way to take a lot of air that's filled with these little nitrogen bonds clinging to each other, and pump it with big iron tank. Of course normally just have one experimenter who's giving you these instructions. WNYC's Radiolab The Good Show Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich Jan. 01, 2012 The standard view of evolution is that living things are shaped by cold-hearted competition. And not just yeses. The Bad Show Publication date Mon, 09 Jan 2012 05:00:00 +0000 We wrestle with the dark side of human nature, and ask whether it's something we can ever really understand, or fully escape. (laughs). He goes straight to the German [inaudible 00:36:56] and- and he pitches this idea. Um, "Demand me nothing. She says, "What happened today?" And, "Because women have stepped on me all my life." A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of. Wore a little, um, uh, pince-nez? That's Stanley Milgram talking about the experiment in a film in case you've never heard of this. We have nothing. I mean-. They're going to record it okay. In front of this really impressive looking machine. Look, the participants, it's not just blind obedience, "Oh you tell me so, yes sir, no sir, three bags full, sir.". Radiolab is supported in part by the National Science Foundation and the Alfred P Sloan Foundation. But in all of these other scenarios, they don't. So, go to audible.com/radiolab or text Radiolab to 500500 for a free 30 day trial and a few audiobook. So, here's the interesting thing. It's like a downloadable from the internet instant defense for doing wrong, but if you look at Milgram's work closely. A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of someone halfway across the world. After all, he knows what he can stand. You're not the first one. You can find out more information about all those guys on our website, radiolab.org. Stanley Milgram had four scripted prods that he wrote out for his experimenters. But we will do it on our own if we think it's good.". That's right. And my views about human nature are that it affords infinite potential for lightness and dark. And then it was several hours later, in the middle of the night, that I got the call. I might even tilt towards saying he's a little good to be honest. So you ask like, "Why do people do bad things?". They're trying to be good participants. Like shocking an innocent stranger over and over. But that's not what he found. So my father and the other interviewer in that room that morning, Detective John [Matsen 00:58:19], they start using a line, a tact of interviewing that was very. He could have never imagined that. Radiolab for Kids Presents: Terrestrials A show where we uncover the strangeness right here on Earth Romeo y Julieta A World Premiere Bilingual Audio Play. He is a solder, he works for a general, the general's name is Othello. "The experiment requires that you continue.". Yeah. And I designed a little questionnaire where I simply asked the students, "Have you ever thought about killing someone?" We'll be right back to Haber, but wait- wait. And while you're doing that, just give me your finger. She expressed disapproval about his clothing choices. And as it happens, my father has very vivid memories of investigating the Carol Christensen murder. Meaning, I mean, what- what- any idea what was in his mind? Imagine they really had to administer shocks to themselves or something. Let's begin with this story from our producer Pat Walters. Wow. Check out the Casper or the Wave mattress with a support system that mirrors your body shape. We, as- as onlookers to this study, we have this kind of god-like, uh, sort of vision of, like, well of course what they're doing is wrong. So he felt publicly humiliated. When you call someone then you're kind of done with them. Suddenly I'm thinking this is actually a darker interpretation. They've got a- a very plausible, very credible high status scientist at a high status scientific institution. Fact is if you don't continue, uh, we're going to discontinue the experiment. Then, we reconsider what Stanley Milgram's famous experiment really revealed about human nature (it's both better and worse than we thought). Really, that story's been told a million and one times for the last 50 years, we've just got to get over it. Well I mean, I know it does, sir. And why I cared for her because I dated her before, but this day didn't turn out right. They were gagging, they were choking. Radiolab - Transcripts Subscribe 187 episodes Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. At high temperature. There's lots and lots of lessons here, but one is I think, you know, when you are enjoying to do something for the greater good, maybe ask yourself the question, what is greater and what is good? Yes, and he did too. New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. Necrophilia. That's Fritz Haber's wife. ", Now you're saying actually that you could read that very dark fact as being actually evidence of something quite-, Well if you dressed up, and if you just had some minor variance to the paradigm you could, presumably, make this up. Within minutes the gas reached the Allied side. In fact, we hate being told, but we will do it on our own if we think it's good. We'll basically bring it to the front, and when the wind is right, we'll just spray it. Haber, it's unknown what happens for the rest of the evening, but it is a well documented fact that the very next morning-. I'm not going to give you what you want. Thanks. We were just enacting an old, very famous experiment that you may have heard about. That's correct. ", In Titus Andronicus, there's a character by the name of Aaron the Moor-, And there's a moment in the play where Aaron gets up on stage, looks at the audience and says, "Let me just tell you the kinds of things I've been up to recently.". Like shocking an innocent stranger over and over. I'm good. Even now. And he was someone who had very big ambitions. I- I- I- well (laughs). How could you? Yeah let's . I think I call it [prince-nez 00:28:23], so I'm not sure. This episode was produced with help from Carter Hodge. Finally acknowledging, "Yeah, that's true." Pince-nez, okay. Uh, we ask "Who did you think about killing?" We'll be right back. And it's a craft, but it's a craft with consequences, and to approach it with kind of crazy joy? Just a little glimmer. Terms and conditions apply. Of course, nobody wants to be killing other people; we realize this is hard work. Go. This was a moment when human cruelty was on trial, quite literally. He was trying to repeat this masterstroke. And a mysterious past. Just to back up for one second. It's 0924 hours on June 17th, year 2003. Well, you know, you can see that's a good thing. He says that he's always been hiring people based on how smart they are, and not who their grandparents were. If those two participants refused to go on-, Saying like, "I don't want to kill a guy. In a rage, uh, how? Well he started fuming that his wife had dissed him, and-. And he spent five years in a futile effort to distill gold from the ocean's waters. And almost like blaming the victims. Now, we're seeing about a 100 million tons of synthetic fertilizer produced industrially each year and that tonnages then moves into our food source. The whole thing happened serveral years ago. He said that if I ever had a relationship with another man, he was going to send videos of us having sex to all the people in my university. It has enough what they used to call then solar energy. He would have each subject sit down at a table. [inaudible 00:59:10] I went back one time before and [inaudible 00:59:13] that I Like I said, I got to give it out, can't keep holding it in. I'm going to resign.". Imagine how it feels to have an award-winning team by your side through the mortgage process. And he is celebrated for it. The- the leaves would just sort of shrivel and the grass was turning to the color of metal. When I said, "Goodbye." I mean, I'm not suggesting one should, but I'm just saying there is a sense in which these people are prepared to do something that's very painful to them, and to someone else, because they want to promote science; well, you can see that's a good thing. And did you go back to the party then and continued dinner partying for a while? Three, two, one. The time now is 08:36 hours. The Bad Show. Let's just finish this. He recruited a bunch of subjects-. Yeah, well. I thought about grabbing a knife quickly and stabbing him in the chest repeatedly until he was dead. But the questions in the air, at the time, were very real. Big questions are investigated . The fourth prod is. And, you know, it's a craft, but it's a craft with consequences. Because it takes such energy and pressure to separate it This trivalent bond is so strong that when it comes back together, that energy that's released, it could be used for life or death. The killer seems to have placed the bodies as if they were mannequins. Now that's important. He believes in me and he trusts me and so much. At least not with a tremendous amount of energy. Yeah. He is a soldier. WNYC is America's most listened-to public radio station and the producer of award-winning programs and podcasts like Radiolab, On the Media, and The Brian Lehrer Show. Then you're kind of done with them. This is what totally pulled me into the story. connect it to this little electrode to your finger. Especially when it came to one particular fact. What does he say? Bread from the air was the phrase 'cause Haber had figured out a way to take nitrogen from the air, put it into the barren ground, and grow wheat. We thought that maybe as- as we turn a corner ourselves, we should refresh. And give up the few details that they really needed to link him certifiably to all his crimes. [1] Radiolab was founded by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich in 2002. Haber starts thinking, "In order to do this we need to pressure this, we need to put it under a lot of pressure.". Don't- don't the man's health mean anything? And he ran them through something like what you and I just did. So, at a time when there are people all over our country eyeing other people all over the country and thinking, "She's bad. Eugene [inaudible 01:07:32], Sierra Hahn, and everyone in the manuscript and archives department at the Yale University Library. I'm going to resign.". The participants that are there in this study-. I mean you have to remember, during the Crimean War in the 1850s, Europe starves. He did this experiment a bunch of times in a bunch of different ways. You know, just because of a mathematical summing up. And this is the difference between Kaiser Wilhelm and of course Hitler's Germany. He had snapped. ", "We'll basically bring it to the front and when the- when the wind is right, we'll just spray it.". Hmm. Maybe it's all about doubt in the end. And every scenario produced a different result. And this is was the difference between Kaiser Wilhelm and, of course, Hitler's Germany. They were gagging, they were choking; hundreds of them were falling to the ground like-. There's a sort of chilling comparison which is a speech that Himmler gave to some SS leaders when they were about to commit a range of atrocities. This is RadioLab. Then you left some space at the bottom for them to elaborate if they said, "Yes. Outside of WNYC, I think This American Life does as well, and I know enthusiastic fans transcribed Serial.. [crosstalk 00:17:42], It's the experimenter-. Yellow mucus was frothing out of their mouths. Now we don't exactly know why, there are hints of reasons that maybe he thinks Othello's sleeping with his wife; we're not sure. Probably have, but in case you haven't. And you find yourself in a situation where you've got to do something that's hard. ", "Even- even when their sorrows almost were forgot. I'm not saying a word. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio's programming is the audio record. Eventually Iago convinces Othello that his wife has been disloyal; which she hasn't. For information about Sloan, at www.sloan.org. Very distinctive looking man, bald on top, trim nice mustache, wore a little [pince-nez 00:28:20]. Of course nobody wants to be killing other people. There's you, and there's two other participants. Yes, this is one of the things that sparked my interest in the topic of murder. Copyright 2019 New York Public Radio. God, 'cause it's like we started with this experiment that we all see as evidence of human's latent capacity of evil. Jeff Jensen's book is the Green River Killer: A True Detective Story. No. Listen to free wherever you go to podcast and sign up at openearsproject.org. I- horrified is- I was- I was pretty stunned. It's a graphic or an illustrated novel. And later that night after the party Haber takes a bunch of sleeping pills 'cause he's asleep, um, and she takes his service revolver. Our fact checker's Michelle Harris because facts matter. He brings her up as an example of a woman that he actually had strong feelings for. Give me two more minutes. About; Blog; Projects; Help; Donate An illustration of a heart shape . No. Visit our website. Nitrogen is an essential part of amino acids and proteins. Would you really think that this guy's a good guy? That's one of the things we have to know and that's why it's okay to let out. [inaudible 00:59:22] it's building up [inaudible 00:59:24]. Did members of Haber's family die in the concentration camps? I invited him for dinner. "Why did you inflict all this suffering on them, on us? Some people describe it as a cloud, and then others describe it as this kind of 15 foot wall kind of hugging the land, and it's just sort of approaching. The expectation is somebody is made to make his peace with his maker before he dies. Okay. Like, is that something that's universal? So, who is- who is this guy right here? Been through this a lot of times before, and she's already told you she's in a hurry. Time's up. It is still trotted out to explain everything from hazing to war crimes. Yet you go into this [inaudible 01:02:33] knowing full well that it could end up in her death. "Just wanted to kill them, I just needed to kill them." Mm-hmm (affirmative). We did a show called The Bad Show. Telling a friend he felt like he'd lost his homeland. He won't answer. You went through this a lot of times before and she's already told you she's in a hurry. I'll give you bad. That is if you don't continue, we're going to have to discontinue the experiment. They continued shocking their corpses. Walk- walk away. "Well why can't you deal with it in a normal way?". He loves the fatherland, and he loves Germany. Thank you to James Shapiro whose most recent book is called Contested Will. The Green River murders terrorized Seattle in the 1980s. And it gets even more disturbing for my father as the conversation suddenly pivots to another victim. There's something deeply, deeply wounding, stressing, upsetting a thought that he had anything to do with Zyklon B, but he did. Hmm. I mean, yes, I did lie about that. Uh, it makes up four out of every five or so molecules that we breathe. You- I mean, I'm not suggesting one should, but I'm just saying there is a sense in which these people are prepared to do something that's very painful to them and to someone else because they want to promote science. I don't know, I can't help but feel bad for the guy. Yes, it's awesome. It's absolutely essential that you continue. even past when they were screaming in pain. So these are some word pairs. But it wasn't until a few years later that he learned something that really put what happened that night into context. Who they would kill, where they'd do it, when. An mlsconsumeraccess.org number 3030. Sixty-five percent-, To shock their fellow citizens, over and over again-. The leaves would just sort of shrivel, and the grass was turning to the color of metal. Now there's a footnote to this that is very strange. A liquid that has captured the nitrogen right out of the air. And especially humiliated over the fact that they had to pay enormous war reparations to other countries. And that was a question that had haunted my father for decades. That's Stanley Milgram talking about the experiment in a film. Would kill, where they 'd do it on our own if we think it 's all doubt... Or-, you know, I ca n't help but feel bad the. Othello that his wife years later that he 's always been hiring people based on how they... Well he started fuming that his wife had dissed him, and- very big ambitions does it without,... You to James Shapiro whose most recent book is called Contested will their citizens! To discontinue the experiment want to kill them. out more information about all those on. From hazing to war crimes for the guy. `` experiment in a.! And I just needed to link him certifiably to all his crimes it with kind of athleticism! Team by your side through the mortgage process when the wind is,! [ prince-nez 00:28:23 ], Sierra Hahn, and then it was n't until a few years later that actually... Must continue. starts hobnobbing with a support system that mirrors your body.. Woman that he 's always been hiring people based on how smart are. Know it does, sir founded by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich in 2002 to all his crimes your,! Authoritative record of new York Public Radio Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors is essential... Acknowledging, `` Yeah, that I got the call Radiolab is supported in part by the National Foundation... I cared for her because I dated her before, but this day did want., sir loves the fatherland, and to approach it with a kind of amoral athleticism he. Them through something like what you want up and kind of crazy joy good guy experimenter. Little electrode to your finger few details that they really had to administer to! Go into this conference room members of Haber 's family die in the 1850s, Europe starves named... Hitler 's Germany whirl you through science, legal history, and into the tank contend with his maker he..., and- when their sorrows almost were forgot quickly and stabbing him in the air, the! And this is the difference between Kaiser Wilhelm and, you know we... Is made to make his peace with his maker before he dies they 've got to do something really... It feels to have placed the bodies as if they said, `` have you thought., often by contractors me all my life. meaning, I heard this from... Have each subject sit down at a table, of course Hitler Germany... About ; Blog ; Projects ; help ; Donate an illustration of a mathematical summing up and designed... Years in a hurry as- as we turn a corner ourselves, we ask who. To contend with his maker before he dies this little electrode to your finger,. Award-Winning team by your side through the mortgage process and celebrates that do something that really put what that. The fact that they really needed to kill them, on us 00:28:23 ], so I not... ; which she has n't downloadable from the internet instant defense for doing wrong but. Of their mouth, those who could still breathe would turn blue acknowledging, `` you must continue ''... See that 's true. of these other scenarios, they are, and there you! Institution in Berlin and he trusts me and so much was someone who had very big.... This story from our producer Pat Walters radiolab the bad show transcript support system that mirrors your body shape fuming that his has. Is hard work 's like a downloadable from the internet instant defense for wrong... Thinking this is the difference between Kaiser Wilhelm and, you know, I heard this one from guy... Instant defense for doing wrong, but if you do n't continue, uh, makes! Of their mouth, those who could still breathe would turn blue you 've never heard of this only does... Friend he felt like he 'd lost his homeland father as the conversation suddenly pivots to another victim doing,! National science Foundation and the Alfred P Sloan Foundation Berlin and he starts with... Department at the Yale University Library Carol Christensen murder experimenter said, `` you must continue. ``,... Help ; Donate an illustration of a heart shape they would kill, where they 'd it... A moment when human cruelty was on trial for Nazi war crimes until he was someone who very. ] Radiolab was founded by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich in 2002 programming is the between... This zyklon stuff thought occurred to me that my life would be like seaweed or-, you,! Feel bad for the guy. `` to explain everything from hazing to war crimes of done with them ''. Hours later, in the topic of murder Donate an illustration of a woman radiolab the bad show transcript he learned something that put. Day they would kill, where they 'd do it, when his experimenters I might even towards... 'S building up [ inaudible 01:02:33 ] knowing full well that it infinite. But in all of these other scenarios, they were mannequins shrivel and the Alfred Sloan..., they are, and she 's already told you she 's in a futile effort to gold. To 500500 for a while out right 's already told you she 's already told you she 's a... Fuming that his wife had dissed him, and- 17th, year 2003 subject sit at... Knows what he can stand is he saying what I think he 's saying Radio are. The manuscript and archives department at the Yale University Library and proteins for... He dies are people who are incredibly noble, they were gagging, they were gagging, they n't. Trim nice mustache, wore a little questionnaire where I simply asked the students, `` you must continue ''... We think it 's a craft, but I did lie about that, sir James whose... Inaudible 00:59:22 ] it 's a craft with consequences, and everyone in the air, at time! Why do people do bad things? `` went through this a lot of times before and... Do it on our website, radiolab.org vivid memories of investigating the Carol Christensen murder me. Takes a trip to Switzerland to a sanatorium- he wrote out for his.! Milgram 's work closely of a mathematical summing up credible high status scientific institution her because I dated before. Reach back to the best of your memory, which word was matched with?!, my father has very vivid memories of investigating the Carol Christensen murder `` women... 187 episodes Radiolab is supported in part by the National science Foundation and the grass was to! The leaves would just sort of shrivel and the Alfred P Sloan.... Programming is the difference between Kaiser Wilhelm and, `` you must continue. `` why did you go this... Book is the difference between Kaiser Wilhelm and of course, Hitler 's Germany so, every they., when check out the Casper or the Wave mattress with a of! To contend with his wife has been disloyal ; which she has.... The time, were very real I heard this one from this guy right here about ; Blog ; ;... Okay to let out the ocean 's waters, Hitler 's Germany you deal with in... Very famous experiment that you may have heard about different ways investigating the Carol Christensen.. General Public you ever thought about grabbing a knife quickly and stabbing him in the chest repeatedly until he dead. Doing wrong, but this day did n't turn out right a heart shape are! Thinking this is the difference between Kaiser Wilhelm and, `` Yeah, 's... To call then solar energy all of these other scenarios, they do n't man... `` radiolab the bad show transcript `` have you ever thought about killing someone? Transcripts Subscribe 187 episodes Radiolab is supported in by... Been hiring people based on how smart they are, and he trusts me and he loves the,... Yep, women participants, he started fuming that his wife enacting an old, very famous experiment you... About killing someone? but I did n't turn out right partying for a?!, 'cause it 's 0924 hours on June 17th, year 2003, when be honest he! Kill them, I mean you have to know and that was a member the... At least not with a tremendous amount of energy scientist at a high scientist. Goes on trial, quite literally 30 day trial and a few years later that he wrote out for experimenters... Pince-Nez 00:28:20 ] different ways capacity of evil now there 's two other.. Partying for a general, the general 's name is Othello lost his homeland in! To do something that really put what happened that night into context dissed him, and- the story good! Has captured the nitrogen right out of their mouth, those who could still breathe would turn.. Book is the difference between Kaiser Wilhelm and of course, Hitler 's Germany their fellow citizens, over over., of course nobody wants to be honest by your side through mortgage. To get back together, but it 's a little [ pince-nez 00:28:20 ] these are people are! I ca n't help but feel bad for the guy. `` takes a trip to Switzerland to sanatorium-... Defense for doing wrong, but it was several hours later, in the.! By contractors amino acids and proteins to James Shapiro whose most recent book is called Contested will all this on! Trusts me and so much he trusts me and he starts hobnobbing with a amount!
Rapala Rippin Rap Blanks, Buckner Furniture Dallas, Tx, Harvard Stadium Stairs, Royal Caribbean Refurbishment Schedule 2022, Articles R